Marcus interviews TV naturalist and conservationist Chris Packham. They discuss overpopulation and getting the truth out in the media and natural history documentaries.
You can contact the show by: Email: thespeciesbarrier@gmail.com Twitter @speciesbarrier Instagram: @thespeciesbarrier Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheSpeciesBarrier
A fascinating deep dive (!) into other consciousnesses.
2016 bestseller by Peter Godfrey-Smith on the evolution and nature of consciousness.
Anyone who has seen the excellent Netflix documentary My Octopus Teacher will be in no doubt that there is an extremely complex realm of thought at play among the cephalopods. The ocean is the source of all life with its single celled organisms and on a different branch to us mammals, they have still chanced to have a large cache of neurons in a decentralised brain.
While the writing can be a little muddled and opaque at times, the evolutionary history and philosophy more than make up for this. Godfrey-Smith scuba dives among the residents at “Octopolis” and recalls their behaviour in rich detail.
Nagel asked us what it means to be a bat and here we ponder what could it be like to see colour through your arms/legs and camouflage yourself accordingly? Arms/Legs that are replete with neurons and have their own individual level of action and autonomy.
An imprisoned octopus recognises the staff members in a laboratory and squirts water at their least favourite individual. A state of captivity of course isn’t suitable for making any overarching judgments. Also listed are flawed, unethical tests in which the individuals are given negative punishment (electrocutions etc) and poor, unsuitable rewards.
A surprising teacher: a young octopus who displays remarkable curiosity
It was telling that the author described the pre-Cambrian times of peaceful, non-competitive life as a “Garden Of Eden.” Who could ever claim it was a boon for sentient life to need weapons, antenna and eyes-as defences-and become “red in tooth and claw”? Unimaginable levels of suffering have followed.
On which topic, Cartesian arrogance that plants us at the centre of creation is being eroded one finding at a time as other species show themselves to be more advanced than previously thought. Often in ways that needn’t involve anthropocentric criteria.
As Yuval Noah Harari asserts, our industrial scale exploitation and killing of other sentient beings will surely come to be understood as a huge moral wrong. Many members of the public recently bristled at the proposition of a new octopus farm but it is long overdue that we equally oppose the farming of cows, pigs and chickens.
The Zouma cat case highlights stark cultural divides in attitudes regarding other animals
In the UK it has been impossible to miss the story of Kurt Zouma, an £125,000 a week athlete who kicked and slapped a cat on camera, while his family respond joyfully. His laughing brother, non-league footballer Dagenham and Redbridge’s Yoan Zouma thought this sadistic display was a funny moment to record, upload and share to social media.
However, this impulse was poorly judged and their host country strongly disagreed. This is the UK, a “nation of animal lovers” where (especially) cats and dogs are treated like a member of the family by many. Outrage and petitions followed, West Ham’s decision to start Zouma in the next match against Watford was viewed as tone deaf.
Lineker’s Tweet captured the mood of many Brits
He was roundly booed by both sets of supporters. The RSPCA correctly stepped in to seize the two cats from Zouma’s property and West Ham later fined him two weeks wages and announced he would miss their next match.
Not everyone was contrite though. The big football leagues of Europe are followed globally, particularly across the African diaspora. A large number of whom weren’t willing to throw their man under the bus. Social media that had previously seen posters defend UK-based footballers Benjamin Mendy and Mason Greenwood (Accused of rapes and assaults, trending #1 in South African news) now came out in force to question the importance of a man beating “his” cat.
A snippet from a significant online phenomenon
A cultural chasm in attitudes towards other animals was apparent as the two disparate worldviews battled in social media’s football forums. Zouma’s West Ham teammate Michail Antonio came forward to practice some classic whatabouteryasking “Is what he’s done worse than racism?” BBC’s Question Time programme amplified another voice downplaying the cat’s plight.
This is where it gets especially interesting. The defenders of Zouma may be speciesists who hardly value other animals morally, but some were able to expose the hypocrisy of the offended Brits. A few asked the “pet lovers” if they eat meat and pointed out that Adidas (a sponsor who pulled funding), profit from the sale of leather skin boots. Cue outraged responses that killing and skinning a cow for boots or her flesh is a different matter. Perhaps it was only the needless cruelty of this case that made it uniquely bad?
In explicit contrast to Jack’s rhetoric, a cow like any other traditionally farmed animal is no different to a cat in their interests. They too are sentient beings that we should morally avoid causing any unnecessary harm or suffering. An example of necessary harm might be self defence against an attack from a bull but can leather shoes and animal products such as flesh, dairy and eggs truly be said to be necessary?
Both the British and American Dietetic Associations confirm vegan diets to be perfectly healthy, even beneficial and protective by several criteria of health. Therefore we can’t claim that the exploitation and killing of sentient beings is nutritionally necessary.
Rather, just as Zouma and company were party to the menacing of an innocent cat for reasons of sadistic pleasure, so too are non-vegans guilty of consuming according to frivolous gustatory pleasure. They make up 99% of society and are overtly valuing the titillation of their palate over the needless suffering of billions upon billions of farmed animals.
As such, I will leave the last word here to the least hypocritical response I witnessed in the entire discourse. Complete, unsurprisingly, with ethically illiterate responses of “plants though”.
Sociologist Roger Yates is back to review recent films
Carnage and What The Health, we also take the opportunity to look back
over other animal rights/vegan documentaries. Roger also rants about
reducetarianism.
We were visited by Nick (another sociologist!) and Katie, hosts of
Progressive Podcast Australia so we had them come by the studio for a
chat on environmentalism, veganism etc.
In the news Donald Trump pulls out of the Paris climate agreement and Bristol VegFest came to an end with this year's event.
Renaissance Roger. Lifetime achievement award for 5-a-side service.
Listen to The Species Barrier 43 Sociological Media Here
We welcome back Sandra Higgins, psychologist and founder of the Go Vegan World
advertising campaign and Eden Farmed Animal Sanctuary.
Guest
bioethicist Travis Rieder asks should we be having children in the age
of climate change?
Also 2016 was another year of record temperatures, previous guest Simon
Amstell has a vegan film coming out on BBC iPlayer and just how much
Arctic ice melt is our carbon footprint responsible for?
Go Vegan World: Taking it to the masses
Listen to The Species Barrier 42 Billboards and Breeding Here
Episode 41, we speak to Josie from the Vervet Monkey Foundation on their conservation work in South Africa, and why they promote veganism play back an archive interview regarding Donald Trump's Aberdeen golf course development and Lincoln Animal Rights discuss their dairy campaigns. We also look back on the Go Vegan World promotional events in Birmingham.
Vervet Monkeys inspect the strange fur-free visage of their primate cousin.
Listen to The Species Barrier 41 Monkeying Around Here
Episode 40 of The Species Barrier....Part two of our interview with Karen I Shragg, author
of Moving Upstream: A Call to Solve Overpopulation, in her book Karen
challenges everyone from green organisations to politicians to deal with
a key causal issue instead of the symptoms.
We discuss the development of The Lawns complex in Lincoln and the
continual loss of remaining green spaces. We speak to Pete who is a
local man who has a deep attachment to the site and the wild animals who
live there.
Also, in the news we are permanently beyond 400ppm and in the wake of
such stark facts ethicists ask should we reproduce in an era of such
inevitable climate change? Bees become an endangered species, and 10% of
remaining wilderness lost since 1993.
The Lawns of Lincoln. This area is now covered in concrete.
Listen to The Species Barrier 40 For Pete's Sake Here
Episode 39 of The Species Barrier... Karen I Shragg, author of Moving Upstream: A Call to Solve Overpopulation. In her book Karen challenges everyone from green organisations to politcians to deal with a key causal issue instead of just the symptoms.
World Peace Diet Will Tuttle returns for the second part of his interview and we discuss the anthropocene epoch, Jeremy Corbyn’s pro-growth message and should we really be surprised by thousands of legal breaches in the UK’s abattoirs?
Coming up today award-winning speaker, educator, author, and musician
Will Tuttle discusses his spiritual approach to vegan education. Rebecca
from The Reasonable Vegan website and Rob the author of Rational
Morality argue that all advocacy should be partaken using rational
reasoning only.
We discuss Harambe the gorilla, alligators at Disney and
a vegan climber dying on Everest. A paper in nature suggests the Paris
climate agreement can't stay under 1.5 degrees and 1.5 wouldn't have been
sufficient anyway.
Should we advocate veganism for reasons of spiritual health?
Listen to The Species Barrier 38 Otherworldly Here
Coming up today, Anne Heritage guardian to the at the time oldest bitch
on earth and author of the book Bramble The Dog Who Wanted To Live
Forever. In this wide ranging interview we cover domestication, dog
nutrition, housing developments. anthropocentrism and more. Karen
Phillips is the founder of Hope Haven Sanctuary, she tells us why health
and fitness is so important to longevity as an activist and as The
Lincoln Vegan Festival approaches motorcyclist Allan Crossley stops by
to tell us why he'll be visiting us on his UK tour.
In the news, we cover the usual ever worsening course of ecological and civilisational destruction.
"Episode 178: We talk with Ruth & Marcus of The Species Barrier;
about veganism, atheism, intersectionality, human population, their show
& much more. #fsd"
This post is a summarised, written version of a talk
which we have presented at many vegan festivals in the UK. We have the
video version on Youtube that was shot at London Vegfest 2015 and can be
watched HERE.
Coming up today... we reflect
on London VegFest 2015 alongside organiser Tim Barford and participants
Gary Francione and Alan and Frances AKA The Grumpy Old Vegans.
We're
on course for the hottest year on record, the number of trees halved
under human civilisation, meats as carcinogenic as smoking, Study
suggests society will collapse by 2040 due to food shortages, Study
labels humans "superpredators", in one year 5000 acres of greenbelt land
has had it's protected status removed, Morrissey announces he's vegan
and was Charlotte Church so wrong for citing climate change regarding
Syrian refugees?
The Big Debate: "Single Issue Campaigns: Taking the Animal Rights Movement Forwards or Backwards?"
Opening statement: "We're all so familiar with the refrain, "Sign our petition against dog
meat, send us a donation so we can oppose kangaroo leather..." A vegan
argument on behalf of single issue campaigns, how we have come to
commonly understand them at least, can only be defended via subterfuge,
duplicity and a secret agenda of "I know we did that but we're really
saying one thing and meaning another".
Our alternative is a
consistent and rational message of veganism as the moral baseline. Over
the decades we have had the opportunity to observe and think critically
about the standard way that the animal organisations utilise their
authority as supposed experts on these matters. The never ending to and
fro dance led between campaigners and industry over fur popularity is a
prominent failure.
I recently saw a campaign to stop grouse being
kept in cages, yes that would be the same grouse who are bred in order
to be shot. The big "animal rights" organisation involved makes no
grander request of the public than that they ask the birds be bred for
shooting in a supposedly nicer way.
So often they target the exotic
other. Think of the campaigns surrounding niche markets for flesh and
fur from dogs or cats in foreign lands. This coming from countries where
we exploit and cause suffering to billions of farmed animals who are no
less sentient.
Think of VIVA's campaign against kangaroo leather,
singling out an animal that is exotic to us here, but how many people do
you know who even wear kangaroo skin in the UK? The very same UK where
virtually every citizen is using the skins of cows on either their feet
or as seating, bags, purses or jackets.
Why the disproportionate
amount of time given to a focus on fur when leather is so much more
profuse? The only implication can be that cow exploitation is more
acceptable or that cows matter less than furry victims.
The single
issue campaign is all too often used as a way of criticising some niche
use that "other groups" partake in, absolving the donor base of their
sins and letting them know that by not shooting grouse, wearing fur, or
kangaroo skins they have done their bit and merit the animal rights,
expert seal of approval. Again, the public assumes that the big orgs are
the authority on what our obligations are to individuals from other
species. Why wouldn't they?
Of course none of these unusual
categories of exploitation apply to the average UK citizen so what it
comes down to in the end is feel good but ultimately hollow victory
announcements and donations, plenty of donations. VIVA have just
announced that Tesco will no longer carry kangaroo meat this time... the
kangaroos surely salute you but the standard farm animals who will
replace them in meals won't. These campaigns do nothing to reduce total
demand for animal products.
The big animal organisations are reliant
on public funding and need plenty of donations in order to perpetuate
their bureacratic operations. As such their message must not be
controversial and instead welcomes all comers into feel good back
slapping. Non-vegan money is sought and therefore a largely non-vegan,
confusing message is what is used to appeal to them.
I personally
experienced this in Lincolnshire when VIVA came to town to attach
themselves to the campaign against the local Nocton mega Dairy proposal.
It was eventually rejected on environmental grounds, as we know farming
cows is very pollutive, but that didn't stop them claiming it as an
animal welfare victory. Regardless of undeserved credit, what was the
victory exactly? The demand for cows and their milk had not been
reduced, new vegans hadn't been created and the ever growing demand for
dairy products will simply be met from another location.
Another
example I can draw on, again featuring VIVA I'm afraid was at a local
vegan festival in Lincoln. Tim of course has now brought in a greater
emphasis on veganism but generally vegan festivals offer up a confusing
mishmash of single issue campaigns vying for public's attention. This
one was no different and while all products had to be suitable for
vegans, the campaigning was without any consistent vegan education.
Don't
get me wrong I'm sure that veganism is buried away in their literature
somewhere but signs such as "Go VIVA veggie!" were the prominent ones.
Not only shoehorning in the charity's branding needlessly but with
"veggie" generally referring to consumption of eggs and dairy, actually
promoting the use, exploitation, suffering and killing of farmed
animals.
We injected some unequivocal vegan education into one
single stall and overheard VIVA's director and founder call us "trouble
causers" and suggest that we should "go and be radical somewhere else".
Radical
was presumably intended as a slur given the context, but it's etymology
is an empowering one, "from the root". Independent, grassroots actions
are the very thing that scares the animal advocacy industry. They seek
to disempower people from pursuing their own grassroots efforts and
instead create a state of dependence with all roads leading through
their machine. Essentially getting paid to offer diluted, confusing
single issue campaigns to the public. Sign this petition, cheerlead us
as we claim meaningless victories, go vegan if you're radical but most
of all please send us your donations.
You are free to reject the
status quo of learned helplessness. Remember that the power is yours to
encourage a real actual cultural shift in favour of genuinely
emancipating other animals. Giving time and effort to the tacit
promotion of killing cows for your shoes, instead of kangaroos, simply
won't get us there.
Closing statement: Exploitation of all other animals is
certainly on the rise and I don't attribute all of that increased demand
to the failures of the animal welfare movement. That the human
population rises by 230,000 people daily, many of whom will likely never
hear about veganism and may aspire to consume animal products as a
measure of status would likely be more significant still.
That said,
the argument that if other sentient animals matter morally they
therefore should not be used as our property has never been given it's
due focus. Therefore it is currently harder to supply supportive
evidence, bar our personal anecdotes. What we can say is the arguments
make sense, aren't confusing and are clear in their claims making. If
other animals matter at all then the least we should do is go vegan.
With that consistent stance the cards will fall as they may with the
public, but we won't have sold out or short changed the other species
who we advocate for."
